News: WR Release #716 - 22 New World Records *IMPORTANT rules changes*

02/06/17 - 22:23:23

Written by: Nannou

Comments: 67

Xtreme-Jumps Demos

Starting from 1st of July new rules will be applied. Any type of showing current /speed of the player during a run will be forbidden. That means that Showpre/Showspeed/Duckpre/Multibhop/Speed and any other familiar commands/plugins will be forbidden. Every demo recorded after 1st of July should be done without those additional methods which show your speed at any time of your run.


ar Cupe

ae_strafers_heaven done in 02:08.42 ( 02:08.68 ru DeathClaw )
kz_deanhawkins_b01 done in 04:13.69 ( 04:16.82 ar Chasquido )
kz_lighthouse done in 04:16.05 ( 04:18.01 bg WetDreams )
kz_wsp_valleyclimb done in 01:13.49 ( 01:14.92 cn rOboTaa )

cn DiLo

cosy_dusttown done in 06:26.21 ( 06:30.67 cz shooting-star )

cz shooting-star

dyd_horizon done in 03:50.12 ( 03:58.98 by throttle )
fu_sane done in 04:21.51 ( 05:09.35 ru topoviygus )
kz_redbrickworld done in 02:25.33 ( 02:31.01 se kayne )
xj_ap_abyss done in 01:20.21 ( **:**.** n-a n/a )
xj_ap_hollywood done in 01:08.37 ( **:**.** n-a n/a )

pl memek

ins_toontrain done in 03:32.29 ( 03:32.96 hk colcol` )

cz fykseN

kz_bridge done in 03:18.32 ( 03:19.52 cn rOboTaa )
kz_ea_desert done in 01:45.47 ( 01:45.88 bg shNz )
kz_junglemountain done in 03:38.15 ( 03:38.87 at volte )

se kayne

kz_gigablockier_pub done in 53:41.72 ( 83:07.35 no ToxicKZ )

ru Dolphin

kz_kzfr_bhopspace[-md] done in 00:11.18 ( 00:12.39 ar emmalahana )
kz_man_eznasa[-md] done in 03:13.55 ( 03:15.45 ca sooshka )
kz_man_nasa[-md] done in 04:06.63 ( 04:18.38 ca sooshka )

ru jigsaw

kz_man_alienbase[-md] done in 05:18.06 ( 06:02.95 ru jigsaw )

ru Toffifee

kz_nix done in 02:37.71 ( 02:38.42 se LEWLY )
risk_ministry[full] done in 02:08.26 ( 02:09.59 ar Aguslash )

ar rawe

xj_ap_matsuo done in 01:37.94 ( **:**.** n-a n/a )

Read the extended news post for demos that were improved or didn't quite make it.

Read the rest...

Comments

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  • GJ toff

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  • Shooting kept his word. +1

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  • RuSSIA champion!

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  • Cupe, the pure element of climbing. Awesome records, congratz for winning kzra challenge!
    gj shooting-star, Dolphin, memek, toff ))

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  • who came with this new rule? i call bullshit on this, sorry
    PS: gj everyone

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  • MEMEK !!! Gj

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  • kz_gigablockier_pub for rotw
    Toff, Cupe, Shooting star fantastic demos, gj
    memek <3

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  • Gj boys esp the KZRA crew ! :)

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  • Good job for all!

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  • watch my demo and wonder how much could I have done without fails

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  • and ofc big gratz to my friends! rawe, ss, fyksen and jigsaw - splendid work guys

    +funfact: my demo has been recorded on kropeq's birthday :D

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  • oh, great! And that was one day before yours :D? Am I right?

    Congrats memek, good to see you still recording awesome demos :)

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  • yeah you're right bro! :D

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  • Nice memek!

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  • cupw s21

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  • "You may not use methods which shows the velocity (e.g. /speed).
    -> Being able to see your velocity gives you an advantage on running parts.

    You may not use methods which shows your bhop prestrafe (e.g. /multibhop).
    -> Knowing your prestrafe you can decide to do or not do extra skips depending on how big is your prestrafe."
    From 2013 and probably way before.

    These rules were set years before, what's the difference now?
    And what about deleting all the demo that were recorded using these methods, like you did with the +use bind?

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  • This plz.

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  • +1

  • Country: Unknown hm^ on 03/06/17 - 11:00:28     Comments: 322     Reply to this    
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  • g-Lp nailed it! +1
    Old demos with used plugins will be deleted too?

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  • seems like it's na impulse from Nannou, but I'm really not sure. it's not going to increase activity here.

    deleting demos with /showpre would be a massive rollback. as g-Lp pointed out, +use in demos never should've been allowed in the 1st place

  • Country: Argentina D2B on 03/06/17 - 02:23:19     Comments: 267     Reply to this    
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  • Everytime I download kayne's record the rar is empty

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  • only -speed was forbidden

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  • kz_nix

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  • GJ all specially Cupe, such a rapid comeback.
    shooting-star insane times as always dude.
    fykseN you suck.
    mehmek
    Toffifee, you killed it!

    RIP Sario & spw. 2017 - 2017

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  • gj everyone!
    About the new rule? :DDDDD bad.
    I understand the problem with /speed but showpre? Seriously? :D

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  • shooting star for prezident

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  • Ooh nice! Gj Cupe! kz_deanhawkins_b01 <3

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  • SadPuppy says woof!

    Good job everyone!

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  • nice maps on this release

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  • kz_nix done in 02:37.71 ez ROTW

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  • would be good if someone made lewly vs toff comparison on kz_nix

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  • I feel like rules were very loosely monitored by demo admins over the years (+use spam, inaccessible hp boost, etc) and jumpers took advantage of this once again by pushing their luck, taking such for granted and having loose understanding of the line rules are making here.

    I'm glad XJ is stricter now in making clear what is not allowed. However it falls under old existing rule as pointed out by g-Lp . Personally I think this old rule is justified and prevents from gaining unfair advantage, jumpers can adjust their actions in record directly, depending on the data they get from both /speed and /showpre. That means all records using such plugins did potentially gain unfair advantage over previous recorders.

    Personally I don't think such demos should be kept on XJ as I find them illegal. I would suggest either removing all of them or closely auditing every demo, to reveal if slightest advantage was actually gained, or could been gained... wherever you want to draw the line. I don't believe it would make a slightest dent in current activity, some people might get demotivated by loosing records, others will see opportunity to improve records in opened spots.

    If its illegal, what ground is there to make an exception for old demos?

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  • /showpre is standart command that always enable at lan startup :D

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  • Its not standart and you can choose what is enabled when you connect to lan

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  • You are perfect example of what I was talking about Dolphin. I don't mean this in a bad way, I understand you, ignorance is bliss. You play this game for fun and don't have understanding concept of rules properly and what advantages those rules prevent.

    However it is NOT "standard", a lot of recording packs have it off in fact. Just because somebody made LJ geek friendly config for start up that you use - doesn't justify it nor make it legal.

    It provides non standard live information in cs1.6, that can be used to adjust jumper's behavior while recording in real time, that is unfair advantage, that is illegal, period. Player can 180 if pre is bad on a long map, player can choose shorter landing route etc... just few scenarios from the top of my head, there are dozen ways it can be exploited I'm sure you can think of your own example.

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  • Wrong. Only /speed was forbidden. Showpre-multibhop and etc were allowed.

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  • Read glp's comment...

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  • i know that comment but i also know that they ive asked people and they said that only speed was forbidden and other things acceptable..

    thats why they made this newspost to ensure that not only speed is forbidden but multibhop showpre and everything else as well

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  • Can you show me where and when it was OFFICIALLY declared as acceptable? Because that didn't happen.

    /showpre was in the rules for a long time and was rather overlooked or ignored as insignificant to my knowledge, not made legal all of a sudden, there is a big difference.

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  • removing all demos with /speed is the worst thing this community should do...would be awesome if any player can show us any example of /speed advantage in a run....dunno why it even exists...maybe for noobs to check their speed..and probably its useable on go_fastrun or similar stype maps

    about /showpre...i think its only theoritically bad for recording...cuz who will use it as advantage in any run...it would be 'oh man i will try to jump this hard shit but ill will ofc watch my prestrafe in the bottom of the screen, because who gives a fuck about my strafes"...would be awesome if anyone has any example of used this advantage in a wr run...

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  • JocA, It's my opinion and I explained exactly why I think removing all such demos is not actually bad. It may be devastating for some people at first, but in the end it will be the same as nothing changed. Just because you don't like this idea and say its bad without any arguments to back it up - won't change my mind. Demos either break the rules or are legal, there is no third option, I believe there should be no double standards and ALL illegal demos must be removed, without exceptions, without special treatment.

    It doesn't matter if I can or can't point to exact WR where this rule is actually exploited openly. Information from /speed and /showpre is illegal and can be used to gain real unfair advantage. First of all there may be more ways to exploit it then we know (besides mentioned examples etc.), then once its actually exploited by someone - there is no easy way to determine that. Rules exist for a reason, godmod is forbidden (even on maps with hp boost), custom models are forbidden, even though both unlikely to give any advantage to average player, its still possible and still illegal. Shnz once recorded few runs with custom models by mistake and demos got denied. Not because he gained unfair advantage there, but because its the rules. When special treatment is given, then there is no definitive line what is allowed and what is not, double standards start to appear and with time people will exploit it. +use spam for example, somebody missed it, made an exception and then it got out of hand. In the end demos either follow the rules or not. Thats my point of view.

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  • First, let me start with an absurd example; your wigbl0ck contain velocity notice too.
    Why did I point this out? I personally play with hud_draw 0 and use showpre and stats just for purposes of post-run (post-jump) analysis in order to improve the movement for the next try.

    I can't really imagine failing a jump and turning back because of pre -5u/s under minimal one. I evaluate the prestrafe based on sound (there is difference for 1,2,3 frames on ground) and it is just enough. You can easily recognize slowdown after 300+ speed as well. Your examples are valid, but still you describe fails that can be replaced. I dont see any point in downgrading parameters shown to player. This will result to ljstats overflow, because it contains speed stats too. To enforce "blindness" in exact velocity, XJ would have to restrict all kinds of jumpstats. The question stays... How does this help the community?

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  • shooting star is right, indeed u can see your current speed but u can't choose what would be your fog on the ground so you are not safe to fail it. showpre will be really helpful at cj after jump

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  • I think you are missing my point shooting-star. Im talking about all this stuff to show how STUPID double standards are and how TOXIC it can be for the community.

    I'm sorry I gave an impression I care about /showpre technicalities and reasons why exactly its in the rules, it was mentioned to serve my main point of removing all demos. If you really want to argue validity of this rule with concrete arguments - take it to XJ CEO and demo admins. If it gets rightfully removed I wouldn't care at all. I'm solely pointing to the fact that if it is in the rules, then it should be honored and followed.

    Your wigbl0ck example does not fit your argument mate. Jbtrainer displays information after the fact and it cannot be used to make live adjustments, its merely a cosmetic feature. Even if there were correct speed vector values at that moment - it wont be useful because of forced slowdown and player can't adjust anything at all after jumpbug for the next ~0.5s air time (w/o duck). If there were possible exploits in jbtrainer and there was an actual rule that covered it - then this demo should be removed, or I wouldn't have made record using it in the first place maybe.

    I don't want to enforce complete "blindness" (there are nice cosmetic info plugins that can't be taken advantage of, for post analysis etc), but I already explained why live information plugins are non standard and their exploit possibilities. I also explained that rules exist to enforce equality for jumpers and not just prevent unfair advantages etc. You and many other jumpers can approximate speed and pre information, that's normal, but I have to repeat that feeding this precise information directly to players from plugins can still pose as potential advantage. I understand your criticism of why pre info restriction may be obsolete, but I'm not interested in semantics and technicalities nor i want to get into how "real" such exploit threats actually are, I'm pointing out that it IS a valid rule right now. To oppose its existance you have to keep in mind concept of rules as a whole and take it to admins who can change it, and I have nothing against that, but leave me out.

    I believe all current rules should be followed without exception and there should be no double standards, thats it. Don't care how any related actions help or don't this community (even though I touched that subject briefly and find it insignificant in the end), I'm discussing concept of rules itself and why its important. Most likely things are gonna stay the way there are now, so I'm just criticizing this news and sharing my opinion on what things I find stupid and why.

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  • @sprin: I aprecciate your opinion but my point is not to change your mind, but to try to find the right solution...
    we can talk about deleting demos for +use...it gives advantage to player even its 0.05...but the way that they deleted it was: the rule = forbidden +use command...then an admin missed it and accepted who knows how many demos with that +use bind...i dont know if i can blame jumpers cuz why the hell it continued to be regulary submitter/accepted to release? ... and then admin(s) remembered what the rules are and started to delete these demos...okay, that was fault of both sides but in my op its bigger fail from admins...and then becouse they discovered it they will delete demos with 3+ min cuz of this +use command...who is that crazy to record it again..if i remember, glp gave up on recording (or just to several maps) and i would if i was him

    and then we talk about deleting demos with turned on /speed /showpre and other...its okay in my opinion to be forbidden in the next demos (just like nanou posted) even it doesnt increase the progress of any jumper...just like you said about shnz's model

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  • I'm glad we can talk through our different opinions JocA.

    There are no solutions, this rule decision looks final so we can only criticize and discuss it, what we are doing right now.

    I agree that admins made a lot of mistakes and have main responsibility for situation you describe there.

    However I don't understand your double standards. If it against the rules then why old demos have a special treatment here? What I see is you being afraid of consequences and how it will "hurt" players and community, so you neglect concept of rules (exactly what I find to be wrong), justifying it as insignificant. If it really is insignificant then why put up this rule in the first place? Maybe it should not exist at all and we treat all records equally?

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  • well yeah theres 5% chance anything will be changed but to discuss...
    when first (or any) demo got released as regular demo (with +use bind)...admins should deny them so players wouldnt have any problems...but they aceptted these in other releases...so players thought it was all ok...(admins are here to remind us for the rules...but doing it after accepted ('exploited') demos is not the thing which is should be done 'right at that moment'and without giving any satisfaction to these players...thats my main point...and because of it i will add a double standard to special group of maps...
    and maybe plus to it, we are not that proffesional here, noone is awarding any money for wrs or demochecking..its everything about fun...so we can add some exceptions...cuz how +use spam will affect on 3+min map if the difference was 3+ sec? affect was demotivation
    theres no ethic in my opinion to delete them and nothing after it...player should spare another 3 days (or more probably) to replace the wr but without +use bind...
    and yeah im a against these +use binds(im for old school style) but its unfair to these wrs...

    also why showing roundtimer (timer while running) is allowed?
    if i remember it was illegeal till some years ago...im sorry if /showtime and /showpre has nothing in common but it came to my mind as suspicious..if we go totally serious and proff...

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  • I agree with your main point there JocA and /showtime predicament, but I would also say XJ is semi-professional community. There have been a lot of monetary prizes in the past. Even though many people play just for fun - XJ is still responsible for accurate representation of world records here. So we need clear rules, to know where the line exactly is and what is actually allowed. Having exceptions and double standards only hurts understanding of that line, causes confusion and encourages abuse.

    You ask how +use spam affects on 3+ min map. Okay lets say this demo is accepted and it improves record by 3+ seconds. You and admins don't see a big deal about it because advantage is insignificant. BUT imagine there is next player who records demo legally without +use spam and comes short 0.01s . Now it suddenly matters, because this insignificant advantage suddenly becomes relevant and denies new player a world record, and we have illegal demo instead of legit one. I don't find that to be fair, do you?

    Same principle applies here, I know for a fact there are already recorded demos with /showpre that won't be WR anymore because of this rule cut off. Probably there also will be people who missed this rule announcement and get their demo or few denied. These people are at a disadvantage simply because they are recording or submitting after this date and get rejected, while old demos get privileged treatment. I can't see how it is fair or any more ethical than removing all such records completely, all demos recorded under same conditions but separated simply by date.

    Rule exceptions and double standards are not fair nor ethical, its just stupid and wrong. Personally I would rather see getting this rule dropped completely rather than such sh!tty approach to accepting demos.

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  • shooting star again fu_sane! and nice toff kz nix

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  • Cupe.. nice valleycimb
    Shooting.. redbrick was freaking fast, prolly rotw oncoming. fu sane was pretty insane too.
    fykseN.. nice one on bridge
    rawe.. nice bhops, ur dems are pleasent to watch
    kayne.. don't stop. We hardly have any oldschooler's anymore.
    toff.. ten specs and still u're not panicking, that's awesome.

    (Offtop: More than banning showpre, gaining speedboost at timer buttons was what really needed to be banned, but it's too late for that now.)

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  • in which map particularly is that starttimer-boost? axn maps or

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  • Cupe - well played on valleyclimb
    DiLo - cg man, finally got this back
    memek - great bhopper, but these fails... and man, bhop the ground with standup, its faster :D
    fykseN - rising star
    Toff - finally nix, cg

    cg all players and democheckers

    PS: showpre thing is a bullshit, see my post above for my reasoning

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  • Although it's slower than yours, but I prefer kayne's previous demo on kz_redbrickworld, btw gj ss.

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  • feel sad with PMSA for his +use on d2block_h. still congratz all

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  • Just don't delete any demo and keep recording with those commands enabled, as simple as that.

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  • wp czech boys

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  • Old rules state /speed to be illegal, but maybe /ljpre and /showpre won't affect things that much because till you read and react to the information there, it will be too late to gain any advantage, however this could also be an counter argument as to why these commands are needed at all then.

    It is not really going to help the newer players in any way and if you are trying to remove hundreds(probably) of demos then it sure as hell is not the right time to do it.

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  • /timer or any other kind of plugin that displays an ascending counter while you are running, should be forbidden too.

    btw, in my oponion is useless to delete every demo using those /speed, /pre plugs, even a lame work...

    and what is that "starting from 1st July" ?? why not starting from next release?

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  • Maybe the same time ;P

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  • Exactly. Thought to mention it in my earlier post, but got outta my mind.
    If you are banning /showpre, you need to make a rule about disabling live runtime count through these kz demo recording plugins too.

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  • gj fykseN & Cupe

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  • I honestly do not understand how /speed is still not allowed in kz. I guess you guys dont want the maps being brought to their knees with .01 time differences, because this is what it looks like. /speed is literally core plugin that should be allowed for a more competitive environment. CSS surf has had it for such a long time now, and even this year 1.6 surf caught onto it. KZ is lacking behind in everything smh

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  • GJ ARG , and kz_nix nice run :^)

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  • my last record is ded :) thanks guys , kz in my heart 4ever


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