News: Cross-Community Bans + Rules Update

10/03/19 - 18:07:48

Written by: Commandeer

Comments: 73

Xtreme-Jumps XJ

Cross-Community Bans

Hello everyone,

It's finally time to introduce the ban system that has been discussed for a while now. The purpose of this community ban system is to make the work of demoadmins easier and hopefully improve the cooperation of demoadmins from different communities. There is simply no reason to let players try and submit cheated demos to another community if they already got caught in another. Especially since most of our demo tools are the same across communities.

How does it work?
Any player who gets permanently banned for cheating in another kz community automatically loses his right to submit demos to XJ (after the demo has been checked by us too). They don't get banned from here, but they lose their right to be a part of the recording business.

In the future, any player that gets caught for cheating that results in a permanent ban in XJ or in any other community will also lose all their world records here, no matter if they're legit or not.

Getting caught here for cheating will still result in a ban. The duration of the ban depends on the severity of the cheating.


Rules Update


As you might have noticed this particular rule was recently discussed a lot after the latest release:

"You may not destroy breakable objects (like bridges for example) or push buttons (with an exception for HP boosters), or push movable objects, before you have pushed the start button."

After we noticed how much room for misunderstanding this rule gives we decided to update it. The new rule will be written like this:

"All objects (doors, breakables, movable objects) and triggers must be in their default state before you press the start button. However you're allowed to press the start button from any position you can reach it from."

Default state here means as if sv_restart 1 was used. It has always been allowed to use buttons through walls if you could reach them, we hope now the rule explains more clearly what can be done.

If you have any questions about these do comment below or pm any of the demoadmins.

Yours,
XJ

Comments

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  • Good stuff =)

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  • Good news!

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  • amazing, this is the most makes sense update i have ever seen in a long time

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  • Getting caught here for cheating will still result in a ban. The duration of the ban depending on the severity of the cheating.

    it's good that the admins can decide how long will the ban last, also once you're tagged as a cheater, there's not a big chance you'll be able to cheat again without someone doing a deep check of your records, well written

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  • About the rule update:

    Can you hook up to the sky to get high before press the start button? Or when u say "from any position u can reach it from", means a position reached by normal jumps?

    Thanks

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  • ok no wait, i misundertand this news, so if its not "permanently banned" will not get a result of ban in xj? wtf is this? so leble is not banned in xj now?

    "Getting caught here for cheating will still result in a ban. The duration of the ban depending on the severity of the cheating."

    so this is even worse than before, bhop macro for 1 jumps, ban time is not permanently anymore?

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  • btw please delete my first comment, this update makes no sense.

    this rules are useless for

    "if a cheater cheated in other community but didnt result a permanently ban"

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  • sorry for triple posting but the thing i want to say is

    "How does it work?
    Any player who gets permanently banned for cheating in another kz community automatically loses his right to submit demos to XJ (after the demo has been checked by us too). They don't get banned from here, but they lose their right to be a part of the recording business."

    the permanently word shouldnt be in this update, since different community have different judging, the thing i want to say is if a guy cheated in other community but he didnt get a result of "permanently ban", he should still loses his right to submit demos to XJ. thats what i think

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  • @Sunako, he wasnt perm banned cuz:
    "Getting caught here for cheating will still result in a ban. The duration of the ban depending on the severity of the cheating."
    whats so hard to undestand :D but for real his situation/ban was really weird

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  • yea thats why i say the rules are fucked up, did u read my thrid comment? "permanently" this word makes this rules broken.

    they should delete all the demos and lose the right to submit demo if someone is cheated in other website, no matter how long the ban duration is

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  • Finnaly !!
    Once cheater,always cheater,that's for sure.
    Nice explanation of the rule !

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  • history truly showed us the truth of that overused statement

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  • "Once a cheater, always a cheater" - great decision.

    also you should consider about adding a rule for [full] maps, which would say that player has to visit every room for the [full] route.

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  • cool

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  • "All objects (doors, breakables, movable objects) must be in their default state before you press the start button. However you're allowed to press the start button from any position you can reach it from."


    WTF is this?
    I stayed silent for a long time, but this is total bshit. Players shouldn't be allowed to push buttons from locations that are not accessible without breaking/moving something.
    Why did you give up traditional approach that every record has to be achievable without any plugins?

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  • I just noticed there is "brekakables" as well, must be just an editing fail :)

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  • oh nevermind, I didn't think about it this deep :D

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  • totally agree... seems they changed the rule just for people dont get angry like it happened when +use script demos were removed...

    i know rules, with the passage of time, they become obsolete.. but is true that in the very beginning of this game, runs were supossed to be finished with out any plugin... the invention of plugins only allows practicality at the time of recording a demo.

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  • +1

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  • This change is just to benefit some guys, hilarious.

  • Country: Romania McL on 11/03/19 - 18:19:58     Comments: 347     Reply to this    
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  • Getting caught here for cheating will still result in a ban. The duration of the ban depending on the severity of the cheating.
    ??????? just perma ban them wtf is this bullshit , a cheat is a cheat no matter what dude , they might do it again. Once cheater forever cheater

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  • @kyser
    The run can be started from any position that is reachable by normal climbing, as long as all possible objects in the climbing route are in their default state.

    "reach = stretch out an arm in a specified direction in order to touch or grasp something"

    @sunako
    Look I know you hate cheaters and believe me so do I. If this was only my decision I would permanently ban everyone who's using cheats on purpose trying to beat legit players. But it's also true one punishment for all types of cheating isn't the right way to go. Someone might not simply know that a ;wait bind is illegal, there is no reason to give a permanent ban for something like this. Of course every kind of cheating that is done on purpose trying to pass our checking will result in a permanent ban.

    @memek
    Work was being done for these route explanations but I'm not aware of the progress at the moment. We'll try to clarify them as soon as possible.

    @shooting-star
    I'm quite shocked people actually misunderstand this so badly. I would like to make perfectly clear nothing in the rules has actually been changed. We were simply trying to make it easier to understand what is allowed and what is not.

    I feel like many of you are completely ignoring the first part of the rule. This clearly shows our choice of words is bad and we're very open to suggestions to make it more understandable.

    All objects still have to be in their default state when you press the start button. Meaning you can't break anything or move anything before using the timer. The last part simply allows for such cases as clintmo_bhopwarehouse, where you can walk through the door first then use the timer through the wall. Not sure why that start was brought up in the forum thread since people have used the timer through the wall for as long as I can remember?

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  • i mean your rules are broken, you need more clear of the rules.

    lets say an example, if cc admin are braindead again like leble situation, a new cheater appear on cc with bhop hack and he only got 1 year ban, will our new cross ban rules affect him? the answer is no, because your rules did say "permanently ban" so no matter what people do outside xj, if they didnt get "permanently ban", they will survive this rules

    the better way to fix this rules is delete the permanently word in your rules, and change it to "depends on the severity" and obviously we should delete all leble demos right now and don't let him submit demos again

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  • As commandeer said above "if a player use ;wait script it would not be legit to ban him parmanently"
    As if the same cheat was used in CC. It wouldn't be consider legit to ban him parmanently.
    Parmanent ban is given if the player use any sort of heavy cheat (bhop hack, slowmo,strafe helper)
    And if the player is not banned parmanent it means he haven't use any kind of heavy cheat to get a paranent banned. Just a small cheat to have a little advantage. Like the cheat leble used which give him a little advantage in his run. Which was not much big of a deal

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  • " Like the cheat leble used which give him a little advantage in his run." yea this website is dead, i can't believe people still say something like this

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  • You didn't understand my point bruh. All i was trying to say the cheat which he used was not worthy enough to give him a parmanent ban.

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  • I just dont understand why you cant write a long, clear rule with some *Comments/Examples* to make no room for wrong interpretations? Even the part of your comment "All objects still have to be in their default state when you press the start button" is ambiguous. So i can open a door, go into the room, close the door, and press start, bcs then the door is closed like in default state, yes?


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  • I'll have to disagree, nothing ambiguous about it. It means exactly what it says and you understood it correctly. Is it the term "default state" that is unclear?

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  • I guess the only thing that can be clarified a little bit more is adding a few more lines on the "reach" part as it's kind of vague as of right now. Some people might think it's possible to use hook, so it's not that hard to interpretate it this way. Should be something like "However you're allowed to press the start button from any position you can reach it from as long as it's done under the default settings of counter-strike. Any external help such as using plugins (e.g. hook) is not allowed."

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  • Little edit on the last sentence:

    Any external help to reach these start positions (e.g. hook/plugins) is not allowed."

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  • What is unclear is the fact that you can start at the top of a building that you can only reach if you normally destroy a wall during the run, but since you used noclip/hook/start location/whatever it's legit because the wall is still in his default state (according to the new rule). That's not how it should work.

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  • How is that any different from "physically impossible to reach" ? I don't see what's unclear here. According to the rule in such situations you can't use hook to get to that place because in reality you have to break an object in order to go there.

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  • The new rule is just about objects having default state and start button being pressed from anywhere you can reach it. Imagine if kz_42_amazon had a breakable wall in the middle of the map in order to progress. You could still noclip to the top of the map and jump to do the start shortcut, the rule would be respected (object in default state and you obviously pressed the start button at a reachable position (just over it), yet it should be forbidden. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about the fact that the rule is still badly written.

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  • Yeah it is a little bit vague, but as commandeer said there isn't a real change. Check out my suggestion on how it should be worded though, I think it would make it more clear.

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  • i think theres a current wr where your example takes place.

    correct me if im wrong... in kz_j2s_darktower, shooting-star's "start position" should be invalid since to reach over there (by normal jumps), he must destroy this object:

    -link-

    so, the fact that he is using /gocheck or /start plugins makes him break the rule, doesnt it??


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  • I vaguely remember that particular rule being discussed a lot in the past and the conclusion has always been the same, keep it as it is. I don't see a point in changing it either.
    Like Comandeer said, I believe it's just a misunderstanding due to the way it's phrased.

    So for example, you can do clintmo_bhopwarehouse from inside since you can open the doors, go in, and they'll close by themselves leaving them in their default state. If they always stayed open after the initial trigger it would make the demo invalid (think cg_extreme and why we have to press the door button after we press start).

    So I believe the initial rule:

    "You may not destroy breakable objects (like bridges for example) or push buttons (with an exception for HP boosters), or push movable objects, before you have pushed the start button."


    Should be worded something like this:

    "You may not destroy breakable objects (like bridges for example) or push buttons (with an exception for HP boosters), or push movable objects that do not return to their default state without the use of plugins, before you have pushed the start button."


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  • Why's everyone acting like they can't understand simple English lol. It's perfectly clear that they've just reframed the rule without really changing the meaning.

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  • Hey sunako why do u call fame a braindead admin since he is the best demoadmin for a long time and he did spend alot of his personal time to check demos for ungrateful ppl like you. What is so hard to understand in leble situation.. did he get banned yes he did and no the rule is from now on and leble is free to submit demos here as long they are clean

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  • yea i should be grateful to the admin that change the rules to protect cheater? (not saying commander)

    leble ban was permanently but you guys changed the rules in cc to protect him, yea and fuck you, just give me warnings and i don't care.

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  • leble was permanently ban*

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  • ok why i'm fixing a correct sentence, i'm blind

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  • I will let you decide the punishment when you catch a cheater. Until then, let the person who does all the job be the one to decide.

    P.S. I'm afraid we're witnessing the birth of McL 2.0

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  • yea please leave then, no one need you now, you are the one who found the criminal doesnt mean u can judge it and change the laws

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  • leble had 6 months ban, what are you talking about? No rules were changed, his ban expired a few days ago.

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  • the rules was if someone cheated will received a permanently ban, but they changed it for leble situation

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  • promax was also caught cheating and just got his demos rolled back, I don't even remember what he did at this point. now he has goldbhop and nobody said a word in years

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  • oh sorry about that, I'm not double standard, I'm not only against leble, since I just don't know the promax situation you said, if I do know it, I will say the same thing, leble and promax should be permanently banned if promax have the same case or even worse than leble

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  • The rule was old alredy few ppl took less punishment long before leble and if we want to protect cheater we can do it easy and nobody will ever suspect it but it was publicaly stated after i busted him. I was able to keep my mouth shut since only me checked this “cheated” demo and i could pass it easy with all clean demos but i didnt thats why your comments about cheaters protection is brain dead. I see its not about leble but you are just trying to put some dirt on demoadmins so save your words its pointless without facts

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  • Indeed promax cheated few demos with jwj and took 3 months if im not wrong they could be a bit more and nobody say shit leble cheated single jump and took 6 months and that was the end of the world for some haters

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  • I explained in my previous comments, and yes maybe it's true that you guys are not defending cheaters, it's you guys are just brain dead in fact about cheating punishment, I can't respect the decision you guys have make and if everyone stayed quiet about it, it will just getting worse

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  • Right now you can navigate to Rules and see "Bantimes for cheating in Demos" which were approved by former CEO - faker and which state that LeblE should have received 3 months ban (he served 6 months). Is faker more brain dead than me?

    Just stop.

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  • yea that rules sound stupid, thank god leble is not caught in xj at first or people can use that rules to defend it, the problem atm is you changed the rules in cc right before his ban, and he's the one who with new account and more than 100 demos also highly suspicious with those bhop pre. if u want to based on the rules, you should give him perm ban at first, better not give me the xj rules atm, what a cherry picking guy

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  • Ok, what do we have so far:

    You understood that CC is not protecting cheaters.
    You understood that it's not my personal approach towards bans and administration from golden era of Kreedz had the same mindset.

    Continuing.

    Rules weren't changed right before LeblE's ban. I'm following the "punishment basing on the severity of violation" principle for many years already, you can walk through my bans on both XJ and CC to see that. When someone pointed that rules need to be updated in order to correspond this — I made the necessary changes.

    Miss me with that "he's a newcomer with good records, he must be cheating" bullshit please, I hear this from "experts" every day and I'd rather read Trump's twitter than more of this.

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  • oh sorry not he must be cheating thing, its he already cheated, also people pointed out the rules are going to tell u, u didnt follow the rules, not telling you should update the rules to benefit yourself

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  • as people pointed out the promax case which i didnt know its not the first time admin didnt follow the rules about ban, so if no one pointed out the rules, you will probably never follow the rules to work?

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  • Have you ever thought that the rules sometimes are not perfect and badly written? Rules are written by people and people commit mistakes even with rules, so rules require changes and we have the power to do so.

    The rule during leble's ban was inappropiate for what he did. Banning leble permanently for 1 cheated jump that is like jwj is the same as banning someone permanently for calling an admin stupid.

    If anything, FAME would have abused the rules and his power if he banned leble permanently back then since he would have been one of those guys (like you) who just want to ban leble for the sake of banning him.

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  • It's not a secret that rules weren't updated for a long time on both communities. They weren't changed to get any benefits (how could I even benefit from that?), they were changed to represent the up-to-date information.

    With given me opportunities of doing some shady stuff you think all I would came up with is rules change? Homie, if I didn't want LeblE to get banned I would silently remove his cheated demo without anyone knowing. Stop making up things and use your fucking brain.

    P.S. -link-

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  • thats why i say its true that you guys are not defending cheaters, its you are the shit person itself, since we have different opinion and you guys see rules as a thing that can easily change during different situation, i mean i agree rules can be change sometimes but you can't use it as an excuse to not follow it, for me your decision is bullshit, you think no one will talk about the rules change during ban decision because no one care? using rules are not up to date as an excuse is stupid af, you can update the rules when no one get caught but not during the ban decision. and don't say something that normal people should do, its obviously no one should hide a cheater (ah just remember the demochecker called leggie like hiding cheaters and braindead people still like him) also keeping community clean is what everyone should do, don't act like you did something better than normal players.

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  • Someone who is about to be banned do not justify not changing badly written rules. And especially rules that have never been respected in both communities. And really, this someone just happened to be leble. It could have been promax and nothing would have changed.

    Rules should be respected but only if they are truly and objectively valuable to do so. This is why your logic fails here.

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  • this is not even the logic problem anymore, since based on your word, the rules and logical thinking are pointless for banning a cheater anymore, since you guys can change it anytime you want to, and who can judge the rules? yea maybe the admin but how do you make people think your decision is right? making change in bad decision is not clever, if in logical thinking, a new player beating all the bhop wrs and get caught because of a simple script on a single unnecessary jump, isnt this weird af? if i'm the best player why i need to cheat on a random jump? and ofcoz u guys will never think about it since you guys like saying "base on the fact" or "evidence" or "rules". now we finally have rules and evidence that he cheated on a jump and now you guys make up something about "we should change the rules based on severity of how he cheated to let him have a fair judge?" then don't about the rules at first since this is basically cherry picking

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  • making change during ban decision is not clever*

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  • Do not assume that I commentated from the point of view of an admin. I have 0 experience with demo checking and overall demo admins. This was my opinion as a regular user who was a spectator during leble's ban in cosy.

    Also sure, you can have your own opinion and I can have mine as well but neither represents the opinion of the entire community. For this matter we need a poll and I'm pretty sure how this poll would end up regardless.

    Also, you are missing one important piece of argument when we talk about "facts"

    First - one can base his opinion on "facts" and "evidence" since he has proven it in the past that he's really good at doing what he is doing (in this case fame)

    However the other "fact", which in your case is that rule, isn't proven to be actually good or valuable which is why it shouldn't be taken into account and why your logic fails here.

    You can apply the same example to phantometry who was dead straight bad demochecker and banned leble based on his "facts". But what happened? Other, more experienced admins such as nannou from XJ helped him and found out that he didn't cheat. (nannou was completely unbiased towards leble back then as he was only demo admin in XJ and didn't care about cc or leble, leble didn't even have wr in xj back then)

    Not only that, but phantometry made two other misjudged bans and in the end he himself cheated some. You see what I mean? Don't hide behind the fact that just because one guy bases his opinion on facts he should always follow them because not all of them have the same value and every case should be judged individually.

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  • i agree with you and poll will be one of the few option, its not the best but not that bad either, and i always know the rules in not well written, but u can read my previous comment, the thing i think they did wrong are they didnt update the rules at first, and changing rules during a really big ban decision of a player who people have extremely opposite opinion on it, also the phantometry "fact" is not related to my logic, and i think phantometry is a worst admin ever, a liar and a cheater.

    the "fact" i was talking about is what leble did, its weird to say everything again since i pretty much said everything in previous comment

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  • and i always know the rules is not well written*

    sorry for many typo and my bad grammar

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  • It is their fault for not updating the rules but as I said before - banning a player is not an excuse for NOT changing the rules. Their only fault is that they didn't change the rules, NOT the timing of when they changed the rules. No event should prevent the change of the rules regardless of what happened.

    tl;dr you can blame them for not changing the rules but you can't blame them for WHEN they change the rules

    Also, users are also at fault for accepting the rules for so long, so it's not just the admins. Same problem we had with the +use script where both the administration and the users were at fault as well as the rule from this newsposts regarding the breakable objects and start positions.

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  • nope, for me even the current rules are bad, as you say, the thing i say is they should change the rules at first but doesn't mean i agree the new rules, cheating is cheating, i think they should all get perm ban, but thats not the point sicne this is just the thing i disagree with. the thing they did wrong is not updating the rules at first, the thing i disagree is the rules itself. like i said rules are rules and thats not something u should change it in that situation

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  • We'll probably won't and I won't try to convince you otherwise. However, I hope you see that you can't say that FAME did a bad or good decision since everyone has their own opinion on the matter. Meaning not all users think the same way you do. So it is what it is.

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  • i think we will just never agree each others on all of these topics

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  • Believe me that was not “big ban decision” not even a decision.. he got busted we discuss ban duration for 1 minute and it was done. Nothing special nothing interesting and it does not matter if its leble fyksen promax or you we dont separate ppl for ban duration but theyr acts. Simple as that.. and believe such acts are not for permanent ban if they were many of ppl here some of they still recording or they were would be long gone.

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  • No matter if the rules were changed or not the result would be the same for his act we already use this ban pattern for a long time.

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  • n1


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